EL BLOG DE LA FIIAPP. Cooperación Española

We discover Kiev (Ukraine) with Manuel Marión, deputy director of the UE-ACT project seconded to the city. He tells us some anecdotes and about his work within the framework of this European Commission-financed project that is managed by FIIAPP and aims to improve cooperation against drug trafficking and organised crime.

How have you adapted to this country? 

It is easy to adapt to Kiev, its a large city where you can find everything. In front of my house I can buy good ham – it is not as expensive as you would image given that it is an imported luxury – and I can also buy olive oil and oranges from Spain.

Kiev has lots to see, many attractions: ballet, theatre… it is the great unknown city of Europe. And it would be worth investing in renovating some of the old buildings that are in the same style as those in the centre of Vienna, where I lived for ten years.

For me it is an advantage speaking Russian, I can more or less communicate with people. Despite the political situation and the promotion of the use of Ukrainian, everyone speaks Russian. The people are affectionate, although they do have a hard time opening up. Most of my neighbours do not even say good morning when you meet them in the lift, unless you know them from somewhere. There is a culture of mistrust, people think that everyone else is a spy or an a government agent who wants to pry into their private lives.

What was most difficult for you and what was least difficult? 

It has not been the cold that has been most difficult thing for me. Perhaps understanding the logic used to number the buildings and entrances. On one occasion I took my dog to the vet and I could not find the entrance because it was camouflaged, until I saw a small sign in Russian saying: “Yes, this is the door!”

Is this your first experience outside Spain? 

I have lived in different countries for many years: El Salvador, Guatemala, Vienna, Ukraine, etc. with spells in Spain and short periods in the Balkans. Your first experience abroad is the one that marks you in a significant way. The poverty – sometimes it is more misery than poverty – that there was in El Salvador made a great impression on me. I lived in a very rural area. I was amazed to see so many boys and girls walking to a distant school in the mornings, wearing immaculate white shirts.

In Guatamala I lived in the capital and what worried me the most was my family’s safety. There were a lot of kidnappings, a lot of people were “finished”, as they used to say on the news when they murdered someone.

What is your work like and your daily routine? 

I travel a lot outside Ukraine, to Central Asia as well as to Africa and Europe. I am abroad for about half the month. I attend meetings we organise as part of the project to discuss the drug problem, mainly in five countries: Kyrgyzstan, Georgia, Ukraine, Pakistan and Tanzania.

We have an office in Kiev, where I work with two other experts. I prepare reports, read those written by our experts, I support their activities, etc. Everyday I use Skype, WhatsApp or Viber to talk to various experts and counterparts who are in other countries and, of course, with FIIAPP in Madrid. Email is my main work and communication tool.

I recently spent two weeks in Tanzania, coordinating a team of experts from various countries to assess their ability to investigate the growing trafficking of drugs – mainly heroin – that arrive by sea from Afghanistan and then come to Europe. I also looked at their policy on drug use and the treatment of drug addicts. Incidentally, there is a Spanish NGO there working on their rehabilitation.

What is your relationship like with headquarters in Madrid? What about with your colleagues in Ukraine? 

Friendly, without any problems. I mainly spend my time working with María, the programme coordinator, as we have an almost daily “battle” against bureaucratic red tape.

Every country has its customs, and the truth is that in Ukraine when you ask for a formal invoice everyone runs a mile. It is impossible. And I have to tell María that I urgently need some services or materials but they will not give me an invoice…

The team is Marta, Iván, David, and Mónica. They are all very nice and efficient in trying to help out. I should also mention Ana and especially Sara, who are a great help in the personnel department. I have worked with both of them for over ten years on other FIIAPP projects. I must also not forget Charo, in FIIAPP’s communications department.

How would you evaluate your experience of working as an FIIAPP expatriate in Ukraine? 

It is a unique opportunity. Due to my frequent trips I do not spend much time in Kiev and I would like to get to know more about its culture, its beauty spots, museums, theatres and its surroundings. Kiev allows me to practice my Russian, which I have been studying for ten years. I travel to many Russian-speaking countries with the project and I am really pleased that I can speak their language. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and those times still have a great influence on the country, you have to live in these cultures to get to know them well.

Do you have any experiences or anecdotes about your arrival in the country? 

One thing I noticed when I first arrived was seeing grandfathers and grandmothers working. Elderly people, retired people, their pensions are tiny and they cannot live on them. They have to keep on working at whatever they can, until they cannot work any longer as they are too old: they sell fruit, vegetables…so they can scrape together a few grivnas to live off.

At the bottom of the stairs in the metro stations there are old women “watching” to ensure everything is going well. The building caretakers are usually grandmothers, aged 70 or older.  And it is impossible to see how they can do their job…The caretakers in my building – there are four who work in shifts and they work day and night – they subjected me to an interrogation to see who I was.

I was also struck by the fact that people are usually very reserved and seem sad. Although – and it can be contradictory – they like to party, just like we do, and there is a lot of night life, although not until as late as in Madrid. I really like salsa music and dancing and few cities have so many venues with Caribbean music and people to go dancing with.

The main aim of this European Commission-funded project to strengthen the management of the Tunisian health system is to implement a medical-financial information system in Tunisian hospitals. The project is being managed by FIIAPP. In other words, to improve the organisation of files and medical records to help reduce costs in the sector.

Carlos Armendariz is Chief Medical Director of the Castilla – La Mancha Health Service (SESCAM) and he worked as head of this European Union twinning project alongside Tunisian experts.

What progress have you seen in the six years since the project’s beginnings?

When we first started the project, the objective was to implement a medical-financial information system in sixteen hospitals. To do this, the first thing that needed to be done was to take a step that was unheard of here: consolidate the medical histories. The histories were scattered in different locations; if you went to seven different services over the course of a year, you would have a medical history in each of them. This is a totally antiquated way of working.

How are things different, now that patients have a single medical history?

Streamlining medical histories brings nothing but advantages. Each of the specialists a patient sees makes their notes, their diagnoses, treatments, and the next professional to see the patient knows what has happened before. The contextual information any doctor who sees a patient gets from this history is always crucial.

What else has been put into practice?

It was also important to make the professionals aware of how important it is that they complete a discharge report, which was not done in any of the hospitals. These discharge reports are not only beneficial, they are a patient’s right. This has been hard work because there was no custom or habit of completing them.

What is the next step?

The Tunisians who are involved in the project, alongside the Spanish experts, defined a Minimum Data Set (MDS) for Tunisia. This is a collection of data for every hospital process that allows the subsequent analysis of the hospital’s activity.  This means that you can know how many patients with pneumonia have been seen during a year, or which types of pneumonia have been seen, or how many appendicitis operations have been performed, etc.

How is it analysed?

By coding it. The coding allows more refined information to be obtained: it allows us to know the types of diseases, the procedures or techniques that a hospital has used. Births, surgeries, cardiac catheterisations, infection by this or that bug… Everything always has a code.

Has everything that was planned been achieved?

The project entailed a change in the way the Tunisian health system works that I think has been achieved, but it has been slightly hobbled. In the sense that, in a project of this magnitude, the change needs to be accompanied by mandatory rules. In Spain, how a file works is highly regulated, as is the length of time medical records must be kept, which documents they must contain, etc. And this has been done, but there is no national legislation requiring that these things be done.

Otherwise, I think that a great deal has been achieved. We have won over many followers in the hospitals, people who were initially very reticent who, when they saw the benefits and advantages of working in this way, became firm supporters. And as they are best able to recognise and acknowledge the advantages and disadvantages, they are the new system’s best advocates. Without these people the project would not have taken off.

What did you think of Tunisia personally?

Tunis reminded me a lot of Madrid at the end of the 1960s, when I was small. Working-class neighbourhoods like those on the outskirts of Tunis: houses with two or three storeys in run down neighbourhoods with unpaved streets. Otherwise, it is a Mediterranean country with a similar sensibility as ours in some things.

And with respect to health?

Very similar. There are old hospitals with old structures where it is not the same for patients as it is in our country, with rooms for one or two people. But when I was a medical student, in the Madrid Clinic there were rooms with eight patients. I think health care is like any other service, it adapts to the resources that society makes available to it.

The doctors generally have good training. They have a lack of resources and technology, probably, but I do not think that health care here is bad. It seems to me that it could improve, but the staff are knowledgeable and they know what they are doing. The results can certainly be as good as anywhere else.

 A year since the signing of the Colombian Peace Agreements, we went to Bogotá to interview the city’s former mayor, Professor Antanas Mockus, a big defender of the national reconciliation process and a leader in changing collective behaviour through education, including behaviour related to paying taxes.

During his terms as mayor, Bogotá underwent a transformation in its tax culture, as its citizens began to notice a relationship between taxes and an improvement in public services. This led to feelings of a shared responsibility for funding development that were based on conviction rather than on the fear of being sanctioned. ‘Todos pagan’ [‘We all pay’] and ‘Recurso público, recurso sagrado’ [‘Public resources, sacred resources’] were some of the slogans coined by Mockus, who also promoted a campaign called ‘110 por ciento con Bogotá’ [‘110 per cent with Bogotá’], which appealed for a voluntary 10% tax increase, with a chance to choose the project the money would go to.

What role do taxes pay in post-conflict Colombia?

The peace process that Colombia is going through has many aspects. One of these is avoiding the use of the force of arms to implement changes. The State must reach the country in a much more substantive way, but the public must also play their part. The public must learn to understand how the State works, how the State reallocates resources for purposes that are usually much more admirable than private spending; it would not make sense to collect taxes to do things that are not as good.

The social rule of law established by the Colombian Constitution of 1991 establishes that one of a citizen’s duties is to pay taxes. However, this duty is associated with the State’s duty to protect citizens’ rights. But rights cost money. There is a book by an American academic named Stephen Holmes entitled ‘The Cost of Rights’, which asserts that a right cannot be guaranteed if no resources have been invested in defending that right.

Colombia is in debt in terms of socio-economic inequality and taxes must be understood to be part of the tools that we have for levelling the playing field and creating more equality. We hope that FARC and the ELN, if they join the peace process, will participate in this learning process and understand the enormous importance of redistribution mechanisms. It is essential to go through the tax system, which is the only method of wealth redistribution open to a democratic government. Redistribution must be understood not only as a way of sharing out resources but also as an essential part of human relations. Public resources are sacred resources.

How can a country’s tax culture be changed?

I have an anecdote about a Colombian who is working and studying in the United States. At breakfast, he tells an American friend: “Last night I found a way to avoid paying taxes”, and he then explains his scam. And the American says: “I’ll give you 24 hours to put that right or I’ll report you”.

The mafia culture is associated with a code of silence. In the mafia culture, the social norm is more than simply not complying with legal regulations, breaking the law becomes part of your obligations.

For a while, I thought that corruption was something it would be very easy to resist, just by saying no, but then I met mayors who had been threatened with violence for not cooperating with criminals. As a result, the combination of the code of silence with the use of violence against those who do not allow themselves to be corrupted generates an illness that is slightly more difficult to deal with, but it is one that needs to be treated all the more urgently.

When you buy a tin of paint at a hardware store in Colombia, you are still often asked whether you want it with or without VAT, with or without a receipt, which is an implicit or explicit offer to not pay sales tax.

This has a decisive influence on the public’s attitude toward taxes…

The field of behavioural economics has found that as humans, we are very risk-averse. If you lose 10 euros and find 10 euros, you won’t be happy; from a psychological point of view, you’ve suffered a loss. You would need to find 27 euros. Losses are seen through a magnifying glass. If you see taxes as a loss, you suffer disproportionately; but it is different if you see them as a contribution, a bit like putting money into a kitty, a mechanism for pooling resources to achieve common goals.

Bogotá has managed to improve people’s attitude toward paying taxes. We have also worked with the Ministry for Health to show that there are other redistribution schemes, as well as taxes. In the Colombian healthcare model, the more economically powerful classes contribute more than their proportion to healthcare and this is a clear redistribution model, because people from very different financial situations receive similar medical attention. Having the same guarantees is another expression of the social rule of law.

My experience is that if people understand what taxes are for, if they understand how the rates for the different groups of citizens work, they can understand how important taxes are. The proper management of these is, in part, the secret to the country’s development.

What is your opinion of the work sponsored by the EUROsociAL+ programme in universities with Tax and Accounting Assistance Hubs (NAFs)?

What is being promoted with the university tax consultancies is a very important step. The role of the accountant as someone who advises you how to evade or avoid taxes is giving way to a culture of a tax adviser who explains the purpose of the regulations to the public, taking on the role of educator.

Borja Díaz Rivillas, Senior Expert in Democratic Governance for the EUROsociAL+ Programme.

For this edition we go to Myanmar to meet Azucena Martínez and learn about how the MYPOL project is going, which is concerned with reforming the country’s police force. The project is financed by the European Commission and managed by FIIAPP. Azucena, project coordinator, takes this opportunity to share her experience of the country with us.

How have you adapted to this country?

When I first arrived in Myanmar nearly a year ago now I thought the adaptation process would be complex given that culturally the country is so different from Spain, Europe and Latin America. However, Burmese people are particularly welcoming, generous and decent. As a foreigner here in Myanmar I have never felt unsafe; people in the street are willing to help you out without expecting anything in return.

The language here is the main barrier. Even though Myanmar is an ex-British colony, English is not that widespread among the local population. This can lead to some pretty amusing situations when trying to deal with taxi drivers or when shopping, etc. Anyhow, I hope that my Burmese classes help to remedy these “little” communication problems.

What was most difficult for you and what was least difficult?

The fact is nothing has been particularly easy, but if I had to mention something, perhaps it would be the relative ease with which I managed to find a place to live. So far, I have lived both in the administrative capital, Naypyidaw, as well as in the former capital and commercial centre of the country, Yangon. Finding a place to live can be quite a problem in both places. Sometimes the cost of renting an apartment here can match that of Manhattan. As unbelievable as it might seem!

What you find most difficult is being away from home, missing your own circle: your family, friends, your reliable, local shopkeeper, etc. But in the end, it all comes down to returning home now and again to recharge and making the most of the opportunities the country offers where you are posted which, in this case, are many.

Is this your first experience outside of Spain?

No, I’ve lived abroad before. But this is the furthest away I’ve been. Moreover, the experience is, for me, the biggest professional challenge to date, both in terms of the scope of the project and the situation the country is undergoing.

Tell us about your job and your daily routine

I’m now working at the MYPOL project office in Yangon. There are 15 of us in all, five of whom are expatriates from different EU countries, while the rest of the staff is made of up locally hired personnel for the project. We also have another six people in Naypyidaw. Consequently, a major part of my work involves coordination tasks. On the one hand, those of my office, and on the other, liaising between both teams.

From the Naypyidaw office, we are in touch with the main beneficiary institution and stakeholder: the Myanmar Police. At the same time, other activities, such as training, seminars and monitoring meetings are carried out in Yangon with the project funder: the EU Delegation in Myanmar. There’s never enough time to get around to everything that is required by a project of these characteristics.

What is your relationship with headquarters in Madrid? 

My relationship with the office could not be better. It is a key element for my work: being able to be in touch practically in real time, bearing in mind the five-and-a-half hour time difference, with the team at headquarters is extremely important. Despite the distance and difficulties, there is never any lack of willingness, professional commitment, or working hours for everything to go forward.

What about your colleagues in Myanmar?

I have a very close relationship with both my fellow expats and the Burmese members of the team. We have come from very diverse professional backgrounds (police, journalists, sociologists, interpreters, political scientists, etc.) and from different organisations, countries and work methods, which makes the whole experience that much more enriching.

How would you evaluate your experience of working as an FIIAPP expatriate in Myanmar?

The experience is turning out to be very positive. I won’t deny the fact that it’s always quite complicated at the start: laying the foundations to work with the local authorities, establishing work networks with other organisations that also collaborate in the reform process, setting up a human structure and basic logistics to operate in the country. All of the foregoing constitutes most of the work done this year and reflects a lot of challenges, while at the same time affording you great satisfaction when you think there was nothing before we came and all we have accomplished is due to hard work.

Do you have any experiences or anecdotes about your arrival in the country? 

Names in general are a tricky business. My name is Azucena, which of itself is complicated outside Spain. Here it fails to identify you as a male or female. Pronunciation wise it is quite difficult, but I have the same problem with their names. There are no surnames as such in Myanmar, nor is their a homogeneous name to call a person: it can be one, two, three, five, or more names that refer to different things: ranging from their ancestors or the day on which they were born to their ethnic group.

It is a real adventure learning how you ought to call a person here. And that’s not all, there are a lot of names that recur quite often. Indeed, there are a lot of people who, knowing this difficulty foreigners have, opt to use a nickname or simply indicate which of these different words that make up their name you can use as their “main name”.

Guaranteeing security is one of the most important challenges at the international level. What are, in your opinion, the most relevant issues or areas for the Police to address in relation to international cooperation?

Spain maintains its interest in fighting against all forms of terrorism, organised crime and illegal immigration, as well as against related crimes: human trafficking, document forgery and money laundering. Although it is equally important to emphasise that we are part of the European Union and it is the European Police Agency (EUROPOL) which, after consulting the Member States, establishes the priorities through its reports: SOCTA and TE-SAT, the keys to establishing national policies.

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In addition, the advance of jihadist terrorism has meant a substantial change in work dynamics in terms of international cooperation and the transformation of collaboration procedures.

Where do you think there is a need for projects in which the police can participate?­ In which areas and in which countries?

Following on from this, at present the police will be interested in participating in any cooperation project that fights against terrorism, illegal immigration, organised crime and related crimes. Right now the key region, where many of these phenomena occur, is Africa. Without forgetting what has already been undertaken in the Ibero-American region, where several successful projects have been carried out.

What are the challenges for international police cooperation?

The Treaty of Lisbon introduced an interesting perspective: the “integrated approach”, according to which the EU’s work and initiatives are no longer formulated in a closed, linear manner, they now involve different cross-cutting tasks and synergies between different actors.

This approach requires that, in police or judicial matters, other perspectives such as social or educational perspectives be observed, which will consolidate the desired stability, but it also forces us to work jointly with different bodies.

Can you highlight the results and impact of an international cooperation project on which you have worked?

We are very satisfied with the participation of the National Police in many projects, which demonstrates its excellent collaboration with FIIAPP, but I would highlight the work of AMERIPOL. What initially started as an EU sponsored project to exchange data on drug trafficking, has continued growing with the support of different countries in Ibero-America, leading to the development of the Ameripol National Units, as well as the use of SIPA (Police Information Exchange System for AMERIPOL). We expect further development and growth similar to that of EUROPOL.

The police is currently working on a wide range of challenges, such as those that affect the environment. What are your thoughts on the projects that deal with chemical and biological CBRN threats?

The European Union is showing increasing interest in environmental crime: illicit trafficking, illegal logging, arson or illicit discharges. The eighth round of mutual evaluations has started within this European framework. It will assess the extent to which Community legislation and the measures taken by the different Member States are sufficient to deal with issues related to illegal trafficking, and it will also make appropriate recommendations.

Another threat the police technicians are working to combat is drug trafficking and organised crime, what are the major advances that can be highlighted in this area thanks to international cooperation projects?

The National Police has been working intensively for many years to combat criminal groups and organisations, which has provided us with an excellent understanding of their progress towards models specialising in financial engineering and with precise transactions on the internet using new technologies. Obviously these new circumstances influence the work the police undertakes, and they make it much more focused and specialised, so that is why we have been moving in this direction lately.

The trafficking of arms and people are also global phenomena, what are the main challenges at the police level?

The policing of both of these kinds of criminal activities has political support from the highest levels of the European Union and the Spanish Directorate General of the Police.

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Arms trafficking has been tackled within the Criminal Policy Cycle as an Operational Action Plan, which will cover 2018 and 2019. Spain has led this initiative and achieved some spectacular results. One example is Operation PORTU, which took place earlier this year in the province of Biscay. It resulted in the seizure of more than eight thousand firearms ready for sale to terrorists and organised crime groups.

In terms of human trafficking, the strategic objective is to minimise the damage caused by this social scourge. From the publicity campaigns, such as the one launched a few years ago “Con la trata no hay trato” (which roughly translates as zero tolerance for human trafficking), to the special focus on dismantling organisations involved in this phenomenon, in which the international cooperation component is key. I can state that it is one of the highest priorities for the police.

The police has been working with FIIAPP for almost twenty years. How would you assess FIIAPP’s work in these areas, and the collaboration between both institutions around the world?

I can only express how pleased I am with it. The collaboration between FIIAPP and the National Police has been efficiently managed for many years. This cooperation has resulted in the implementation of numerous projects: from twinnings with EU candidate countries to the management of Internal Security Fund programmes, or more recently the Trust Fund that allocates large amounts of money to projects linked to illegal immigration, mainly in Africa. In all these cases, FIIAPP has been a solid and reliable travelling companion.

I am fully aware that the management of funds is not an easy task, and in this case, the Foundation gives us the necessary support to push forward with all the international cooperation initiatives that interest us. We hope to be able to count on this support in the years ahead, and to strengthen this relationship of mutual trust that allows us to make progress in the specialisation and improvement of the service that the National Police provides.

We turn our attention to fieldwork and look at Bolivia through the eyes of Santiago Santos Benitez, the technical coordinator of the project European support for the special counter-narcotics police force in Bolivia in application of the law.

How have you adapted to this country?

Well, I’ve really been working in Bolivia for 15 years. I spent two years in the north of the country, in Riberalta, Department of Beni. I knew Bolivia quite well and I’d been to La Paz several times.

The city of La Paz is about 3,600 metres above sea level, which is an initial handicap for the adaptation process. Whether or not you have already lived in this city, you have to acclimatise every time you return. As to other issues, it should be noted that Bolivians are very polite, friendly people, so adapting to Bolivian society is very easy. The culture, their ways of working, in fact we have lots of similarities that make the process easier.

La Paz is a city in the Chuquiago Marka valley so it is “protected” by mountain chains. This squeezes the city somewhat and limits its growth. This factor has made its urban growth very disorganised, creating a city set in the midst of chaos. When you walk around La Paz, you find myriads of streets and historical buildings alongside tall skyscrapers. At the beginning it can seem somewhat stifling; however, over time the chaos becomes this city’s special attraction.

What was most difficult for you and what was least difficult?

Personally, and this is not always true for everyone, it was adapting to the altitude that was the greatest handicap for me. La Paz is surrounded by high mountains and is constantly split up by steeply sloping streets, which in the beginning can be somewhat discouraging.

The easiest thing, let’s say, is adapting to the country itself because there are many similarities between our Spanish culture and Bolivian culture. Speaking the same language also makes adaptation much easier.

Is this your first experience outside of Spain?

I’ve been working outside of Spain for almost 15 years. My first posting was to Bolivia in 2003. I’ve worked mainly in East Africa in countries like Ethiopia, Somalia, Mozambique, Kenya and Tanzania. I’ve also worked in Asia, in India and Nepal.

What is your work like and your daily routine?

We try right from the first moment to link up with social institutions in the daily routine of the project. We work at the offices of our local Bolivian partner, the Secretariat for Coordination of CONALTID (National Drug Control Council) and we have a relationship of collaborating on and coordinating all the activities that we carry out as part of this project. We also work with many other Bolivian institutions, both public and private. Although we do most of our work in the office, which increases coordination with our local partner, we are constantly travelling to other departments since the project is a national one. As well as carrying out the duties of my position as Technical Coordinator, I also coordinate courses on combating people smuggling and trafficking. This means that I have to actively take part in these courses, many of which are held in other cities away from La Paz.

What is your relationship with headquarters in Madrid?

This is a fundamental aspect of the smooth running of the project. There is direct daily communication with Sergio Garrido, who is the person who handles all the economic management of the project from Madrid. Although we have a time difference of 6 hours between Madrid and La Paz we maintain very smooth, daily communication, which is very necessary for the smooth running of the activities. But we do not only work in coordination with Sergio, we also have the support of Mariano Guillén, Director of the Security and Justice Department, who gives us constant support. Another key department for cooperative relations between Bolivia and Spain is Communications. Through our colleagues, we publicise our activities in Spain, which plays a vital role not only in showing what is really happening in Bolivia and our link with the country through the project but also in public accountability.

What about your colleagues in Bolivia?

Teamwork and coordination are a cornerstone of keeping the project running smoothly. The team is made up of 6 people. There are three Spaniards and one French colleague. We also have the support of two Bolivian colleagues who have administrative and logistical duties and help us all the time with all the paperwork for bringing in foreign experts for the training courses that we carry out.

How would you evaluate your experience of working as an FIIAPP expatriate in Bolivia?

The FIIAPP is an institution with great experience in this type of project, which means working with highly specialised people. It is also an extremely professional organisation, which makes the work very much easier.

Do you have any experiences or anecdotes about your arrival in the country?

At the beginning, there were three public institutions participating in the project; however, little by little the number of institutions has increased. At the moment, we are working with about 20 institutions, including civil society. This is a real handicap when coordinating activities, courses and other things planned as part of the project. In my case, and it can be said that I have worked on dozens of projects, this is the first time that I found myself in the situation of dealing with such a wide range of institutions.