EL BLOG DE LA FIIAPP. Cooperación Española

In this interview, Pepa Rubio tells us about her life in Bogotá since she began her career as an expert in management and gender on the AMERIPOL support project, focused on strengthening the international cooperation capacities of the police forces that are part of AMERIPOL.

How long have you been in Colombia? How have you adapted to this country? 

I have been in Bogotá for about 5 months, where I came to manage the EL PAcCTO: support to AMERIPOL project whose objective is to improve the cooperation of the police and judicial authorities of the partner countries in their fight against transnational crime.  The project is exciting and I am also having the opportunity to go deeper into issues such as Gender Violence and Human Trafficking, which I consider crucial and which have a great impact in the region.

As for my transfer, I was accompanied by my husband and my son and at the beginning I was rather worried about what the adaptation would be like for the whole family. Luckily we have adapted quickly and well. Fortunately we have not suffered from altitude sickness. Bogotá is a great city and we like life here, although we must take certain precautions in terms of security.

What has been the most difficult aspect to adapt to, and the easiest? 

The traffic is the biggest problem I have found living here, depending on the time of day the “trancón” (traffic jam) is inevitable and it is a bit exasperating. The easiest thing is the contact with people, luckily I met lovely people right from the beginning. Colombians are very open and facilitate closeness, which I love!

Is this your first experience outside of Spain? 

It is not my first experience abroad. Before Bogotá I spent 3 years in China and another 3 years in Vietnam working with Spanish cooperation on issues related to gender and human trafficking. I also lived a year in Germany where I finished my university studies. It is my first long-term stay in Latin America, and because of the cultural ties that unite us with the region, I think adapting has been comparatively easier.

What is your work like and your daily routine? Is it very different from the routine you had in Spain? 

I work at the AMERIPOL head office in Bogota, so my colleagues in the office are members of the Security Forces of several countries in the region, at the beginning it was unusual working surrounded by uniforms and I still have trouble remembering the ranks of all. In any case, my colleagues at AMERIPOL have received me with open arms, despite being a civilian, for which I am very grateful.

As for the management work, it is not very different from what I was doing in head office, but I do notice that, being concentrated on a single project, I find it easier to keep up with the management and contents than when I was responsible for multiple projects. Due to the nature of the project, our activities depend to a certain extent on the support of high political and police authorities, and the reality is that with 8 partner countries we continuously depend on electoral calendars, rotation of governments, ministers or police directors and we have to prevent these changes from affecting our programming (or minimise the effects), although this is difficult.

What is your relationship like with head office in Madrid? And with your colleagues in Bogota? 

My relationship with head office is very good as well as constant and necessary. I have a very close contact with Irene Cara at the technical level and with Álvaro Rodríguez for economic management, both of them help me and improve the results of my work. Irene was already responsible for the backstopping of the previous phase of the project, so having her background knowledge is a good thing.

At the leadership level, both Ana Hernández and Mariano Guillen are very involved in the activities and their follow-up, this commitment is very important for the success of the activities and their visibility vis-à-vis Spanish institutions.

I also have contact with the legal department, the ICT department and with the communication partners, whom I all bother from time to time.

As for my colleagues from Bogotá, the project office is made up of Marcos Alvar, the project manager, Nadia Kahuazango, the project assistant, and myself. Marcos is in charge of the technical part and the relations with the partner countries, and each day is an opportunity to learn from his extensive experience in police cooperation. His coordination is also very horizontal, which makes it possible to add visions and inputs and achieve results that are shared by the whole team. Nadia takes care of the logistics part very diligently and is a great companion.

How would you assess your experience of working as a FIIAPP expatriate in Bogota? 

I consider myself privileged to have the opportunity to contribute my experience and energy to such an interesting and relevant project. I firmly believe in the importance of consolidating AMERIPOL as a hemispheric cooperation mechanism and the project is contributing enormously to this process.

At the level of the tasks to be carried out, I think that the fact of having worked in the FIIAPP headquarters before gives me a very complete view of the work, having been on both sides of the curtain is very useful as it helps me to empathise with and understand the positions of both the headquarters and those on the ground.

In addition, FIIAPP as an organisation is a ten out of ten, another advantage of working in an organisation at this level is that there are other projects with similar themes and activities and colleagues are always willing to share experiences and contribute to the coordination of content. It is a luxury to have so many good professionals a click or a call away.

Do you have any experiences or anecdotes about your arrival in the country? 

In the first meeting I had in Colombia, someone asked what we wanted to drink and everyone asked for a “tinto”, which in Spain is a red wine, and I remember thinking: Christ, it’s not even nine o’clock in the morning! I asked for a glass of water. Then they brought coffees for everyone and I realised that a “tinto” in Colombia is a coffee, and to think that I almost asked for a beer to help me “fit in”, I would have died of embarrassment!

How important is the Ibero-American Summit in the international politics of the participating countries?

This is a meeting of the highest political level, since it brings together the heads of state and government of the 19 countries of Latin American, together with Spain, Portugal and Andorra. From this meeting, a political declaration is made, which must be followed up on in the two-year period between each summit.

Every year foreign ministers of all countries meet with the aim of complying with the mandates issued by the heads of state and government during their respective meeting at the previous summit, and in the same way regular meetings are held at the ministerial level. At the level of governments, spaces of consensus are generated on common themes that are considered relevant. Both the General Secretariat, based in Madrid, and the pro tempore Secretariat, which the host country of each Summit holds, are dedicated to the coordination and preparation of Latin American meetings or forums. Civil society is also cited several times during the year to feed thematic documents that will reach the authorities. This means that there is a participatory scheme of governments and civil society that supports the summits, and not less important, a network of relationships at a regional level that strengthens the Ibero-American space in its various thematic vectors.

The summit is dedicated to sustainable development, but will gender also be present? What other topics will be relevant at the meeting?

From the moment that the theme of this Summit is framed within the Sustainable Development Goals and obviously the relevance of the 2030 Agenda for the region, the gender component will be very present. It is unthinkable to discuss a prosperous, inclusive and sustainable Ibero-America without considering the gender component. The Ibero-American cooperation considers it and for that reason the dedication to the subject is perceived in a transversal way in all Ibero-American programmes and commitments. Especially those related to the definition of new models of governance and social cohesion, the creation of alliances through dialogues, education, programmes, initiatives and projects that promote culture, the necessary innovation to move to new productive models through the spaces of knowledge, and transversally in all areas with the theme of gender.

What role does cooperation play in the framework of the summit?

It plays a central role since it is the basis for the verification of the work carried out by the Heads of Government of the 22 countries. In other words, Ibero-American cooperation is one of the pillars that support the Ibero-American summit system, a central motive for the holding of meetings and forums in the region.

It should also be noted that the Ibero-American cooperation model is unique: it has an integrating approach and its design considers horizontality in the relationship between states. Participation in Ibero-American cooperation programmes is voluntary, and each country evaluates its national priorities when deciding to take part.

Although cooperation is technical, it articulates financial cooperation on principles based on solidarity among countries; the programmes are the result of previous political dialogue. It is also part of the Ibero-American Cooperation Manual that has been updated periodically.

The areas of Ibero-American cooperation cover social cohesion, education, innovation and knowledge and culture and, as I mentioned, are applied in Ibero-American spaces. Its instruments are divided into programmes, initiatives and related projects.

Do you think that at the summit, practical solutions will be proposed to the proposals promoted by the 2030 Agenda?

Ibero-America has been working on and responding to the challenges proposed by the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and its 17 Sustainable Development Goals through steps and procedures in each of the countries and through sovereign decisions, all the while fulfilling an intensely active international political agenda. Of course, the need to focus on a new sustainable development must have a regional perspective, but most importantly, a global approach is necessary. Most of the problems to be resolved through each of the SDGs are intrinsically related to actions and interrelations between the countries of the region. And, also, the way to face these and aim toward achieving them also depends on sharing successful experiences, a feature that Ibero-American countries have incorporated through the Ibero-American cooperation system.

The central axes of the SDGs include equality and care for the environment, take into account the right to productive and decent employment of people, transparency in governance and a clear relationship between the State and citizens. All these issues will be and have been dealt with in Ibero-American summits and in the meetings and forums fostered within them.

How is the FIIAPP linked to this summit?

FIIAPP is closely linked to the process of the Ibero-American Summits and follows up on their progress both in the political dialogue and in the maturity of their regional, triangular and South-South cooperation programmes. Our concentration on the improvement of public policies and better administrations with the countries in which we work means that we share many of the objectives of the summits; Latin America is also a priority region for the action of FIIAPP.

Furthermore, the Secretary of State for International Cooperation and for Ibero-America and the Caribbean, president of the Permanent Commission of the Board of Trustees of FIIAPP, actively participates in representing Spanish cooperation throughout the process of the Ibero-American conference and in particular in this upcoming Summit in Antigua, Guatemala.

How do people see the coca leaf in Bolivia?

The production and consumption of coca leaves are deeply rooted in society and its customs. The Plurinational State of Bolivia has acknowledged that there are 20,000 ha of coca plants being grown in two main areas: Las Yungas, in the department of La Paz, and Chapare, in the tropical region of Cochabamba. Producers are registered and are entitled to grow one “cato” of coca (1,600m²). The coca leaf they grow then goes to a cooperative and from there onto the legal market, either for personal consumption, called “picheo”, i.e., balls of coca leaves are put into the mouth and the juice sucked out of them, or for coca mate, sweets and other products. All that comes from these areas is considered legal cultivation. The Government also has to manage the eradication of coca leaves in places where their cultivation is not authorised.

How does it become illegal?

Logically, not all the production goes onto the legal market; some of it follows parallel routes and is used to make coca paste. The paste is the result of adding other elements to the coca to produce cocaine hydrochloride.

Also, it should be remembered that Bolivia is not only a producer, it is also a transit country, as paste arrives from Peru, another producing country that has some 45,000 ha of coca cultivation.

So, what is the profile of a coca leaf producer in Bolivia?

It is, purely and simply, that of a farmer, who, with one “cato” of coca, earns just enough to make a modest living. That is the reality and what I see. Can this coca leaf subsequently be processed or go to an illegal market? It may do, but the producer par excellence does not have the profile of a trafficker.

The producers produce it as part of their basic subsistence economy, to live decently with their families, and producers are different from traffickers. Maybe this would be the smallest link, the lowest on the chain, where a producer is making it illegally.

What resources does Bolivia have to prevent illegal trafficking?

The government has the Bolivian police force, especially the Special Forces to Combat Drug Trafficking, a vital ally in the fight against drug trafficking. These are special squads that are found all over Bolivia and they try to prevent drug trafficking from intensifying.

What is the role of the project in this network?

The project tries to provide support and strengthen departments and institutions linked with drug trafficking by bolstering their skill sets through technical assistance (legal, protocol, manuals), for which we co-opt experts in the short term from the National Police and Civil Guard in addition to French experts. The latter give assistance in very specialised areas, to strengthen the aspects that they consider necessary. Specifically, five themes are dealt with: criminal investigation, intelligence, borders and airports, and related crimes (money laundering and people trafficking and smuggling).

What are the prospects for the future?

The project is solid and well established; in fact, it is the institutions that turn to it so that they can become stronger in the areas they consider the weakest. This year, we have been working on all the areas to consolidate them and strongly reinforce them and next year will see the final implementation.

We also hope that, logically, when this first part of the project ends there can be a second part, as this would be very important, so that we could continue to strengthen these areas and move forward and improve all the Bolivian institutions.

What is being assessed?

Janet López: In Uruguay, we are now tackling the Casavalle Plan, which is a comprehensive policy and a demand that has to do with policies of inclusion. It is a project being developed by Montevideo City Council that has had input from various ministries, which have submitted different policies.

A comprehensive policy consists of input from a variety of stakeholders, from our Ministry of Social Development and Montevideo City Council: in regard to infrastructure, the housing sectors, how overall development is applied to sport and culture as an essential part of the development of a society. These different lines make this a comprehensive policy.

We are now gathering new data to check how this policy has progressed.

Teodora Recalde: In Paraguay, we started a process of performance budgeting in 2011. We began by introducing three types of performance indicators, public programme assessments and a management balance sheet. We are working very hard on the institutional assessment and starting to evaluate the designs and results of the different programmes, such as the agriculture programmes, judicial and prison programmes, health programmes and other institutions that have specific programmes.

Why is the assessment necessary? What is the objective?

J.L: The assessment is part of a long-term strategy. We are working on the entire public management cycle: planning, budgeting, monitoring and evaluation. Assessment was the final stage that we included.

The unit that I manage was created 10 years ago and maybe, a little over 10 years ago, no one even talked about assessment. So, as part of the entire public management cycle (planning, budgeting, monitoring and evaluation) the assessment unit was created in 2011. We started doing internal training and now we are tackling a variety of interventions in public assessment.

The fundamental objective is to improve management. This is not a punitive assessment; this must be made clear to the parties involved. It must really contribute to improving management and, in the end, to the use made of public resources

T.R: The purpose of the assessment, from the viewpoint of the budget and the Ministry of Finance, is to design programmes that will reach the public, and for the programmes that are implemented through the budget to have an impact and to look at where the investment is going.

What does EVALÚA offer as a project?

J.L. Casavalle is not the first project on which we have worked with EVALÚA. We have been doing this for some time and I think that EVALÚA contributes technical expertise, from support for reviewing all the terms of reference to the support that the administration of FIIAPP is providing us with. In turn, the exchange that EVALÚA makes possible with other countries in Latin America involved in the project also adds value. Exchanging the different viewpoints that we all have adds value.

T.R. For us, the EVALÚA project is a mainstay; there are comparative advantages in the complementarity between countries. They have created a new work scheme by stimulating the relationships between professionals in different departments, whether the planning department or the financial department, like ours, and an instrumental and methodological contribution to assessment.

What is it like working with EVALÚA?

J.L. To explain what it is like working with EVALÚA I could give examples of many activities. I could emphasise the exchanges and the formation of a common working agenda; the review of assessments that were made in another country and the expertise of the various technicians also add value. That is one aspect and we in particular are working on a monitoring and assessment skill development plan that, we understand, is part of having a nationwide and international language in common with the countries that are involved.

T.R. There are assessments that have already been made with other countries. In particular, in Costa Rica, we worked on the terms of reference for starting assessment and adopting these types of assessment models in that country. For us, this is an advanced process since we are just starting it.

What are the benefits for the public?

J.L There is going to be a direct benefit because what we want to do is to evaluate the real impact of the different policies and approaches that have existed in the region. And we are also going to work on consultative workshops with civil organisations. This will also bring about a result, feedback so that we can see where things must be improved or what to focus on.

T.R. The public will benefit as these programmes will be well designed and the services properly delivered, there will be a direct impact on the public.

In the assessment, viewed from a financial and budgetary point of view, the debate is where to cut resources. One never knows where to cut, so an evaluation is necessary. As you evaluate, you know where to invest. Because, if you invest well, the budget really reaches the public.

What is EUROCLIMA+?  

EUROCLIMA+  is a programme funded by the European Union offering a wide range of specialized services aimed at supporting the implementation of the commitments of the Paris Agreement in the field of climate governance, as well as the funding and technical assistance for the execution of projects with Latin American countries. 

The implementation of these projects is carried out through the synergistic work of cooperation agencies of member countries of the European Union, together with two agencies of the United Nations ( UN ).   

What are the objectives of the programme?  

The programme seeks to promote environmentally sustainable development in 18 countries in Latin America, in particular, for the benefit of the most vulnerable populations. In addition, it supports countries in the implementation of the commitments established through the Paris Agreement on climate change.  

What does each of the agencies that manage the programme do?  

The spectrum of topics covered by EUROCLIMA+ includes the main development areas that are part of the climate change agenda. These issues are driven by the vast experience of the agencies implementing the programme, selected on the basis of their experience in the field of climate change, the environment and sustainable development in Latin America. 

One or several agencies deal with each of the components of the programme. Therefore, the FIIAPP works on Climate Governance with the Economic Commission for Latin America ( ECLAC ), UN Environment and the German Society for International Cooperation ( GIZ ). The German agency also deals with the component of Forests, biodiversity and ecosystems, energy efficiency, together with Expertise France, for Resilient Food Production, also with the French institution, and Urban Mobility , with the French Agency for Development ( AFD ). The latter also works with the Spanish Agency for International Cooperation for Development ( AECID ) on the components of Energy Efficiency, Water Management from an Urban Perspective and Disaster Risk Management.  

What does the joint work of all these institutions contribute?  

The joint work of the different implementing agencies provides a broad and complementary experience in the field of climate change and sustainable development. It also promotes the exchange between Europe and Latin America, shortening distances and promoting synergies. 

And the work of the FIIAPP in particular?  

The FIIAPP leads the implementation of the Climate Governance component, accompanying the countries in the design, updating or implementation of climate policies. This will help Latin American countries reach 2020 with updated legislation and plans adapted to their realities.   

Specifically, the Foundation facilitates dialogue on climate policies and provides technical and financial support for the development and implementation of policies, plans, measures and tools for adaptation and mitigation of climate change in Latin America. It works by directly supporting the governments of the different countries, with actions oriented at their strategic and direct demands designed jointly with the Latin American institutions within the framework of the EUROCLIMA+ programme.  

According to the topics of greatest interest in the region and considering the context and the main challenges involved in facing up to climate change, the action lines of the component would be the implementation of NDCs, climate services, climate financing, education, communication and participation, and gender.  

The key tools at the service of the 18 participating Latin American countries are those of collaboration between institutions, the search for synergies, joint learning and the exchange of information and best practices. To this end, the horizontal component offers both European and Latin American experiences in this area. In addition, it strengthens the capacities of Public Administration personnel, as well as other persons involved, including civil society.

What are the challenges of EUROCLIMA+?  

EUROCLIMA+ works in an innovative, intersectoral and multi-stakeholder environment. The initiatives are identified and planned through participatory mechanisms. It encourages dialogue and regional exchange, ensuring that Latin American countries share best practices and lessons learned.   

The programme provides services to the governments of Latin America based on their needs, seeking to promote political dialogue, knowledge management, capacity development, education and awareness of climate change. EUROCLIMA+ is driven by demand. It brings together experiences from Europe and Latin America, as well as the experience of the specialized agencies of the United Nations, it supports South-South cooperation and joint learning processes.  

Given this scenario, one of the main challenges of the Programme is precisely the synergistic work with 18 countries in Latin America, a region in which many strengths and needs are shared, while at the same time presenting great differences, marked by their history, culture, politics and interaction between the nations themselves.  

How can we bring about a cultural change in our societies regarding the phenomenon of corruption, so that it stops being seen as a natural phenomenon?  

The fact that corruption is normal is a central problem in our societies. Corruption appears when it is installed structurally as the normal way of doing business or to get aid or whatever you need from the State in the way of services. This is a problem that has to do with rebuilding certain agreements about the basic values of a society. For years these agreements have been broken as has the understanding about what was good and what was bad in societies.  Even if one analyses what the perception of a very small child is about what is fair or unfair, it is much clearer than the perception that this child is going to have when he (she) permeates social criteria over the years. We must work hard on education and discuss  again what is acceptable and what is not, because, when corruption becomes the norm, there is no longer an effective antidote, because in the fight against corruption the partner that we really need is a society that is mobilised, citizen by citizen, aware of what should be allowed and what should not.  Conditions must be created to promote or channel that social energy. 

What are the challenges for international coordination in the fight against corruption from examples of global institutionalised corruption like the Lavo Jato case?  

Large-scale corruption, like the Lava Jato case, poses different challenges for the justice system than the corruption cases seen previously, however big they were in monetary terms, because this is a global phenomenon and, therefore, requires a global response and cooperation, not only at the country level but also between all agencies.  This is one of the problems faced by the justice system when it wants to investigate these cases. Not only access to banking information, tax information, information on money laundering organisations, which should be made far easier for the judges and prosecutors who are investigating, but also the need for international cooperation. 

This is why the procedural rules must be changed in many countries and the international conventions on fighting corruption must be altered, because we continue to face this type of problem in a situation in which money is moved from one country to another with a mouse click on a computer, in a matter of seconds, and it disappears off the radar.  Here, we are confronted with the same mechanisms for dealing with the government as we had in the 19th century: the judge prepares an official letter that goes to the government, the government sends it to the government of another country, which sends it to a judge, and that judge says that he lacks a detail and returns it, and months go by, if not years, before the information is obtained. Also, if the money moves from one country to another, or from one social structure to another, or to another fiscal paradise in a matter of seconds, it is impossible to follow its trail, which is essential for investigating corruption. 

Recently , an Anti-Corruption Legal Aid Centre (ALAC) was inaugurated in Chile, with the support of EUROsociAL+ , a programme managed by FIIAPP. What is the value of this centre for allegations of corruption and how will it serve as a link between the State and citizens?  

ALACs already exist in our chapters in over 60 countries. The idea behind these centres is to support victims of corruption or those who know of cases of corruption and want to report them and do not have the legal or judicial support needed to do so.  ALACs have allowed us to trigger allegations of corruption in many countries around the world, because it is no longer an individual citizen but an organisation that is linked with the Public Prosecution Service and can channel the complaints and follow them through. 

In many of these countries what we have are agreements with their bar associations that allow us to have top-level legal advice from lawyers who work on the cases pro bono and provide, through ALACs, contact with those who want to go to court and do not know how.  Also, these ALAC centres have provided us with a great deal of information on how corruption operates in the countries, direct, first-hand information that would have been difficult to gather otherwise, since corruption operates in total secrecy, receipts are not handed out for corruption except in exceptional cases in which a record was kept of the accounting, as happened with Odrebrecht, which had a section of the company devoted to these structured operations. 

To what extent does corruption have different effects on women?  

An important sector in which to find a gender difference is in relation to access to services and allowances that are linked to petty corruption. This is because women are responsible for care-giving tasks and, therefore, we are the visible face that is requesting the aid, because poverty has been feminised and the poorest sectors are those that need the cooperation of the State in the provision of those services. 

Another factor that specifically punishes women, or does so in a more substantial manner, is the area of exchange currencies. In many petty corruption cases, sexual favours are demanded or they give rise to situations of harassment in which women are victims twice over.  

The corruption barometer, which is one of International Transparency’s measuring tools, shows that in the region, areas of public policy like health, education and social plans are perceived as being the most corrupt or the most prone to corruption, and these are the areas clearly linked to care-giving tasks and requesting allowances.  So, corruption has a different effect on men and women. 

The other two areas of the state in which different effects can be observed are the police and the courts. When the police and the courts are affected by corruption, the women who have to resort to them in cases of discrimination, domestic or gender violence, femicides, rape or harassment face the fact that, when they defend their rights in an area dominated by corruption, instead of finding protection and a guarantee of these rights, they end up being victims.